View Full Version : Sin Of Damnation - Rescue
Dezartfox
06-22-2009, 15:33
Oh man, the last mission I played went so bad.
Was playing the mission where you find the C.A.T in SOD (I think).
All started well when the C.A.T spawned directly in front of my terminator squad on the left, I was like :thumbsup:! I just had a great mission before and ranked up a couple of marines. So all I had to do was run through the map to deliver the C.A.T. Simple! I proceeded as normal until it all went horribly wrong.. the first squad with the C.A.T were wiped out.. didn't see it coming, a mix and jams and just too many genestealers.
The other squad proceeded to advance to where the C.A.T lay, which was around the center of the map. Lots of blips on the map, I thought to myself it wont be more than a few genestealers.
BOY was I wrong!
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg246/Dezartfox/Pic_000copy.png
Look at the minimap! Just look!
I died.. horribly.
I had almost the same experience on that map, marines died all other the place. At the end I managed to run all the way back with the whole hulk covered in enemies and the last marine was killed on the teleporter...but thanks to new code in V1.1 I completed the mission...the CAT was after all on the target square which is what the mission is all about. :)
I just had an assault cannon fail 4 consecutive shots on a stealer while on overwatch. The stealer then killed Ihol who had previously jammed. That was unlucky. But in the same game Zadkiel eviscerated 17 stealers with his lightning claws, and survived plenty of attacks from the rear, beign responsible of holding one flank all by himself. So in the end I think was far luckier than unlucky:)
For a single turn he didn't kill any stealers because he was in a corridor surrounded...and as they take turns one AP at a time, the stealers were making Zadkiel turn around all the time, but he couldn't kill them:)
Dezartfox
06-23-2009, 02:12
Arrgh, I jsut died on this mission again. Was using Bagios World Eaters graphics, I blame them, they're cursed ;)
All was going well until I got the vertical corriordoors near the center (pictured above), just too many genestealers to handle :( I ran BOTH flamers out of ammo getting to this point, taking a lot of genestealers with me.
They all swarmed into the left room and slaughtered the marines in there,
Just my sergeant left, he took the fight to them, killing four with his stormbolter before being ripped apart himself.
I have to say this is one of the hardest missions, all the others are fine ;)
Heh...I guess I get buggered when saying that I actually played this exact mission yesterday and got away with no casulties. Yep, zero.
Then again, the CAT spawned right in front of the top most marines. With my usual luck, it normally starts somewhere around the GS entry points...
/DevL, long-time lurker craving for SH 1.1 to be released...
DevL: In V1.1 the CAT will always spawn infront of the sgt in Alpha squad. Did it spawn in random location in V1.0? Don't remember, was so long time ago I played V1.0. :D
Karakorum
06-24-2009, 12:22
DevL: In V1.1 the CAT will always spawn infront of the sgt in Alpha squad. Did it spawn in random location in V1.0? Don't remember, was so long time ago I played V1.0. :D
does this make sense? Isnt the cat supposed to be found, before you bring it back?
does this make sense? Isnt the cat supposed to be found, before you bring it back?
Agreed. In SH, the CAT is suppossed to be found (i.e. random spawn) unless a marine is already carrying it at the start of the mission.
does this make sense? Isnt the cat supposed to be found, before you bring it back?Well, if you read the level description in the board game the CAT is actually carried from beginning by one marine...if I'm not mistaken. But we had to cut the special features at some point to make it mess confusing to the casual player. If you play a deliver mission it always plays the same way: Find an item, pick it up and carry it to the destination. To be as true to the mission as we could the CAT is infront of the sergeant.
Notice that it is not a Search and Recover objective but a deliver objective. This to make it possible to have both search missions and deliver missions using the same mission objective.
Example of missions using this objective:
Tutorial - Search and recover (find and carry CAT to destination)
Tutorial - Find the CAT (find and carry CAT to destination)
Sin Of Damnation - Rescue (pick up CAT and carry to destination)
Harlequins - Destroy (pick up Canister and carry to destination)
I practicaly never fail this mission. With all the times I played it, I've worked out a few good strategies to tackle it, but I agree it's not an easy mission.
Dezartfox: re: World Eaters, did you make your blood offering to Khorne first? :tongue:
Dezartfox
06-28-2009, 21:07
Dezartfox: re: World Eaters, did you make your blood offering to Khorne first? :tongue:
:johndoe:
I knew I forgot something.
An almost successful playthrough of the Rescue mission, one marine died after first suviving three (!) attacks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o9T8XzScNQ
Dezartfox
06-30-2009, 12:47
Pfft you were just lucky ;)
I think my problem was not getting that western flamer out quick enough and covering the entry, I always put a marine there and he'd just get overwhelmed. Plus the northern entry I only had a marine covering too, the flamers I used to clear the way, but that then od course meant I couldnt proceed forwards as flames were blocking the way -_-
Man I suck!
When using only one marine it's like an guarantee to jam.. at least two marines need to cover the major entrypoints. Sometimes it's even better to flame a couple of squares infront of the Genestealer to stop them rather than taking a shot directly at them and might risk they survive the fire.
Karakorum
06-30-2009, 13:18
Sometimes it's even better to flame a couple of squares infront of the Genestealer to stop them rather than taking a shot directly at them and might risk they survive the fire.
Maybe in your fabulous v1.1 world ;)
Maybe in your fabulous v1.1 world ;)
Yeah lucky 1.0 bastards.. :blink:
Flaming an enemy in V1.1 is risky business. If it survive you have to have four squares or more to it and another shot so you make an empty square surrounded by flames or you are toast. The GS love to kill flamers, even more on flame missions. They really like marines not in overwatch...well, except marines with lightning claws. They taste funny... :drool:
alex3337
06-30-2009, 13:51
They really like marines not in overwatch...well, except marines with lightning claws. They taste funny... :drool:
Do I understand correctly that the new AI will avoid marines with LC?
Me and other humans who've played SH with me did do that ... there's better ways to waste a good GS than launching it against the Claws, unless they really are in the way to a more important objective, or you can get at them form the side.
The more I play, the more I find myself playing the AI for its weaknesses, like choosing target based on distance, moving away from the flamer if distance is long, not moving into rooms with 3 marines in OW, stopping at the corner even if they could get 1 attack at the target ...
Sometimes I really miss a truly evil GS player who knows *my* quirks and plays them against me.
Sometimes I really miss a truly evil GS player who knows *my* quirks and plays them against me.I think there are no games developed yet in which the AI cannot be read by the human mind. How often didn't you trap enemies in a corner in Doom since they always tried to walk straight to the player not going back for the door.
The AI in V1.0 was ok, I think we have improved it not only in speed but it is far away from super human. Since I know exactly how it "thinks" I can play with it and make it act in my favor, but still sometimes it does something totally random and unpredicted, forcing me to change my positions.
Karakorum
06-30-2009, 14:27
How about random factors?
Example:
AI can chose between trying to attack the overwatch marine (would get one attack if the marines misses all the time or jams) or stay in cover.
Now normally your AI would decide to stay in cover (just an example, dont know what it does in 1.1), but you could add something like this:
In 90% of the cases the AI stays in cover, but in 10% of the cases it will attack.
This would make the AI more surprising and the game more diversified, even if it could cause the AI to act stupidly sometimes but hey - sounds very human to me.
Or do you already use it that way?
Dezartfox
06-30-2009, 14:29
Aw the AI is already smarter than me in 1.0 :(
AI can chose between trying to attack the overwatch marine (would get one attack if the marines misses all the time or jams) or stay in cover.
Now normally your AI would decide to stay in cover (just an example, dont know what it does in 1.1), but you could add something like this:
In 90% of the cases the AI stays in cover, but in 10% of the cases it will attack.
This would make the AI more surprising and the game more diversified, even if it could cause the AI to act stupidly sometimes but hey - sounds very human to me.
Or do you already use it that way?
That exactly how we made it. Apart from optimizing the path and ways the GS attack and pick their targets we have finetuned a lot of random variations to surprise the player when he least expect it. Sure sometimes it is still possible to trick the AI but in general we are very proud of the AI in the 1.1. By watching the video of the new tutorial-missions that Niklas posted on our webpage today you can see some parts of how the AI respond in trying to outmaneuvre the marines by waiting in front of them and also letting other blips sneak up from behind and using tunnels whenever possible.
Karakorum
06-30-2009, 15:33
That exactly how we made it.
Oh :lol:
But after studying the new videos and focusing on the AI and not on the look-and-feel... yeah, the AI definitley acts different than before. But I need to test it myself a few times to give an evaluation. Maybe you could accidently drop your usb stick into a letter with my address on it and accidently drop it off at the post office?
The best is when a 3-blip converts in a junction or in a room and each enemy takes a path of its own. That looks so cool and I get so proud of my child...err...lines of code. :77
alex3337
06-30-2009, 19:10
Now that is something that I was really missing in the v1.0 AI.
I can see myself having some Marines killed in every mission in v1.1 ... great, I love a challenge :thumbsup:
Hey guys, nice videos:) I want to play that close encounters mission!
However I didn't like the "AI is moving, please wait" message. It sort of takes away from the creepy space hulk feeling. I know that it's an AI what's moving, but I prefer to think it's some alien monster from deep space what's crawling around my marines and not some cold CPU performing operations with 0s and 1s:) I don't know what message I'd use instead though, maybe something like "the enemy moves!"...something that doesn't imply you're fighting genestealers, so that at some point you can eviscerate some filthy eldar or anything else a modder comes up with.
mr curtis
06-30-2009, 23:59
However I didn't like the "AI is moving, please wait" message. It sort of takes away from the creepy space hulk feeling. I know that it's an AI what's moving, but I prefer to think it's some alien monster from deep space what's crawling around my marines and not some cold CPU performing operations with 0s and 1s:) I don't know what message I'd use instead though, maybe something like "the enemy moves!"
Funnily enough, Jorgen raised a similar point earlier this evening in the dev forum and I think the "AI moving" text is going to be altered. :)
Funnily enough, Jorgen raised a similar point earlier this evening in the dev forum and I think the "AI moving" text is going to be altered. :)
And also as I have mentioned earlier this entire bar is turned off by default so you will not even see it if you do not like to. I never use it for instance.
The text will be changed into something more fitting for the setting of the game.
And it is basically the same thing as the log window, that too removes some realistic feeling of the game. But if you want it, it can be shown. :)
the_Fifth_Horseman
07-01-2009, 06:51
The text will be changed into something more fitting for the setting of the game.
Hidden Movement as a nod to the X-Com series, perhaps
Combo Breaker
09-28-2011, 10:51
This mission is a piece of cake if you'll advance with vulcan from one side and flamethrower from the other.Completed it without casualties(or 1 death I dont remember) with this tactic.
Most dangerous place is that small turn in the middle,this is where you need combination of 2 heavy weapons to break through.
Gotta try this mission out with my friend in actual SH,although I can already forsee that my tactic wont work against living opponent :D
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