View Full Version : Weapon accuracy
Do we want to keep the aiming rules from AA1 giving the soldiers same accuracy no matter range to target? Or do we want to change to a system that basically spreads the bullets within an accuracy arc meaning that targets near by will most likely be hit on every bullet?
It is a pretty big change if we decide to go with an accuracy arc instead of the hit/miss ratio used in AA1 but it works well in the old UFO games and we use it today in AA:L2D. This reduces the need to have range limitations on some projectile weapons since the spread of the weapon will make it useless on long range (for example shotguns).
Using a weapon accuracy system would also make it easier to give soldiers different skill in aiming and also make weapons like sniper rifles and weapon addons like scopes possible to have: + weapon addon + soldier accuracy]. All additions to the bullet's trajectory would mean the bullet will diverge more and more from the the optimal trajectory (lowering accuracy).
With the "dice system" used in AA1 this become harder to implement since a +1 step (even if we go from D6 to D12) would become a too big change.
On the other hand, the hit/miss formula might be a big part of AA's soul so removing that would be a big thing...to some players. At least those who play with console up. The other players just play looking at the game mechanics as a big black box. :D
[B]NOTE: If we would change the accuracy system in AA2 we would of course try to mimic the original hit percentage from AA1 as much as possible. However it would most likely be easier to hit targets closer than futher away (as in any other realistic shooter game). On smaller missions like the Song Of Destruction you would most likely not notice any difference, except that you kill enemies easier in short range.
Shadow-Cab
02-27-2012, 10:46
I think at this one I go with the change of the accuracy - even so it is diffenrent to the SH rules but AA2 should be a step forward, so
this could surely be a good thing if it don't get to far away from the basic
chances of hitting/missing we already have.
What about the possibility for players of switching this function on/off over the menu ?
Maybe that could be easy done if this is kept like a "calculation function" that can be switch between "regular rule" and "modified accuracy rule" ? :knowledge:
Greetings
Cab
People have requested to be able to play AA2 with AA1 rules. We'll see how far we can go with backward compability when it comes to game play functionality. This is very much one of those things that we need to investigate.
With that said, we will not make two games. So if a function is too deep within the game mechanics people just might have to live with it...or if it is that horrible keep playing AA1. :ohmy:
Rowanthepreacher
02-27-2012, 12:32
I like the spread idea. It seems like it merges accuracy and the multi-target rules, although we'd still need multi-rules for hitting things behind our original target.
Hitting behind a target is no problem. A hit is not a hit but a hit in the target's collision box and then there is a percentage chance of actually hitting the character. If not, the bullet continues maybe hitting another collision box.
CATAFRACTO
02-27-2012, 15:08
People have requested to be able to play AA2 with AA1 rules.
We've been here before, eh? :tongue:
Alright. I've voted "yes" cause I prefer realism (up to some degree, of course). For example, Space Hulk wasn't designed to be played outdoors, nor in 30+ tile length corridors. We've played this kind of missions in AA1 and yes, some accuracy rules would be welcome. Besides, AA1 doesn't have the same shooting rules as Space Hulk, does it?
I just hope there's no problem to include SH/AA1 and AA2 rules. :rolleyes:
The shooting rules of AA1 are the same as known board game. ;)
CATAFRACTO
02-27-2012, 17:45
You're right. Just one change (which is better than the boardgame): "section effect" was replaced with cover of a 3x3 area (Flamer shots, Vulcan Cannon malfunction) and 5x5 area (Flamer and Blast Hammer self-destruction).
Oh, and you can't un-jam weapons!
I am glad that you all (so far) are into the new approach! Will be fun to tweak it to make even Cata like it. ;)
CATAFRACTO
02-27-2012, 18:33
:D
I will surely like it. I just want the old approach "just in case". :knowledge:
the_Fifth_Horseman
02-27-2012, 19:03
How about simplifying this down to a range penalty? That would be simple enough to be turned off as the player likes.
As I see it: Each weapon would have an "effective range" and "maximum range": targets beyond effective range incur penalties based on the range, increasing in a linear fashion until targets beyond the maximum range cannot be shot at.
We could make a natural 12 always hit regardless of modifiers. :p
Horseman: So I guess you are thinking about patching the rules from AA1 instead of the new approach? That would be a shorter step to take for the rule geeks of AA but not something that help us with impacting bullets on walls when missing targets which the other system would give us "for free".
CATAFRACTO
02-27-2012, 20:39
From another thread:
You would basically never miss a shot on an enemy one square away - something that sounds logical but it is a biiiiiig step for the rules compared with AA1.
Now we have a problem:
- If a soldier shoots an inmovilised objective on an adjacent tile, he'll never fail.
- If a stressed and nervous soldier shoots a supernaturally fast enemy which is about to reap him/her up, the tense soldier might need to fire several shoots (in game terms, the player needs to spend several action points shooting), sometimes even to empty the magazine.
So I have to disagree, since the game represents really fast action.
A door or other large solid object you won't miss but characters you still might. We just have to figure out a system that allows us to have almost the same experience.
With that said I think it is a bit wierd that the best soldier around are scared and nervous so the miss a target in point blank range. ;)
the_Fifth_Horseman
02-28-2012, 06:45
Handheld miniaturized rocket launcher: 500 000 $
Complete set of powered armor with advanced targeting and tracking system, strength enhancement, stabilizers, IR and UV vision and light amplification: 60 000 000 $
R&D costs: Incalculable.
The "oh ****" realisation that you just missed a slobbering alien monstrosity when it's RIGHT NEXT TO YOU: Priceless.
CATAFRACTO
02-28-2012, 08:08
:lol: Good one! You've convinced me: I'll take three of them. I'd like two red and one black, please. :D
We're all out of red. But we got these pink ones? ;)
CATAFRACTO
02-28-2012, 08:38
:ohmy:
Isupposeyoullreceiveredssoondontyougrrr
Sorry, all red ones have been bought by a UK company. Apparently their lawyers are in need of some heavy gear to fight internet crimes this coming years... 8)
CATAFRACTO
02-28-2012, 09:17
:lol:
I would recommend you to delete that post, since you've mentioned some lawyers that are intellectual property of The Company :D
About those armors, I've checked my account and... can you believe it? I can't afford them! :johndoe:
the_Fifth_Horseman
02-28-2012, 13:09
This year's model comes only in neon green, electric blue and hot pink, sorry. :tongue:
Combo Breaker
02-28-2012, 18:41
Tough decision...
Im a huge fan of the boardgame,and I like the idea of deciding monster's and soldier's fates by rolling dices in general more than some action-like firing spread.
On the other hand it could benefit from becomming more action-like.Seeing how the bullet trace misses or hits something would be great.
I'll go for a new variant,since fresh features are always great.I hope you'll save a possiblity to play with dices - classic AA for all boardgame nerds like me.
*for a point-blank shooting with new system - add panic factor.If there is something scary right infront of a soldier he will fire his weapon in auto mode consuming x2 more ammo on assault cannon and causing random jams on carabines-stormboters.That or extreme % accuracy loss for the rest of the shooting sequence to punish your mistake.
LAAT501legion
02-28-2012, 19:56
I like this idea, AA2 is supposed to be an improvement.
Im a huge fan of the boardgame,and I like the idea of deciding monster's and soldier's fates by rolling dices in general more than some action-like firing spread.I'll really try to make everyone happy.
Rowanthepreacher
03-03-2012, 11:48
Niklas, your proposed solution for hitting targets behind the original doesn't work unless you calculate damage, hits and death for every bullet fired. Otherwise, a very accurate gun with no spread will hit the first target 5 times and do nothing to the target behind, while an inaccurate gun with no spread will miss the first target occasionally and hit the target behind, which sounds fine, except that it would make inaccurate guns...better.. in many cases.
I dunno. I started off enthusiastic, but the amount of additional work it would require from you and the extra processing requied from my computer doesn't seem equal to the benefit we'd get from it. Can I change my vote?
Of course every bullet will be calculated. For shotgun shells every pellet will be a projectile.
predicador56
03-03-2012, 22:35
Whit this system a marine in overwatch (while dont jam) never will be eated by an alien, when the alien is near die (near is more easy no?100%¿?).
The acuary system of the game XCOM is for a game whit map very longs, open spaces, long range shootings,no for maps full of corridors. is my opinion.
If the enemyes can be injured many times before die (hit points >1)is posible that the system work.
Sorry for the bad english, isnt my native idiom.
_drugon_
03-04-2012, 00:19
I liked the idea with increasing accuracy with the scope. So I hope that new system could be more interesting than classical.
Whit this system a marine in overwatch (while dont jam) never will be eated by an alien, when the alien is near die (near is more easy no?as I said we'll tweak the system into being as true as possible to AA1 on small/medium maps.
JasonRimmer
10-05-2012, 19:25
I think making the accuracy abit more indepth is a good idea. I see people mentioning the boardgame rules. Well I think boardgame rules are restricted due to the fact to many rules can hinder the game (ASL anyone). I'm sure the boardgame designers would have loved to have all manner of rules in place but obviously they couldn't. We don't have this problem with the PC. We can make the mechanics more indepth because the PC does all the calculations for us. I think sticking exactly to the boardgame rules in away inhibits the the potential of the game. We have the power of the PC doing all the bookkeeping so lets use it.
SO I think different weapons should have different accuracy modifiers, also marine experience should also effect weapon accuracy. Finally things like scopes etc should also be taken into account.
This game has so much potential to go further than just the Space Hulk boardgame as inspiration. I think it could and should have the capacoty to go onto surface warfare etc etc. Even if not in the base game at leats there for modders to get their mitts on.
Brother Leon
04-23-2013, 23:00
why not just do both?
Settings
Weapon Accuracy clicked turns into older one
I guess it would be fairly easy to tweak the weapons so they don't loose any accuracy on range. So having it as a setting might be just waste of time, unless a lot of you request this then we will of course consider it.
It will be no problem to modify AA2 to true or at least very close to AA1. This will however mean that you will have to edit some configuration files, but I guess that when one player has done that he/she will upload the mod pack and everyone can grab that if they want to play AA2 with AA1 rules (no accuracy loss, 1 health point, ...)
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