View Full Version : Rules.sh / weapons.sh
the_Fifth_Horseman
04-22-2009, 10:17
The addition of the layout.sh and thus fully customizable sprite sets allows implementation of other races - eg Harlequins - that do not use the standard sprite layout.
If some elements of the game mechanics (number of AP, CP, close combat rolls) could be customized using an external file - let's call it race.sh - and the weapons could be customized using a separate one - let's call that weapons.sh - it would fully open the way for race mods such as Harlequins. Yes, I am aware it would not permit for some of the more outlandish rules the races might have.
What Race.sh should contain:
* min/max number of CP
* innate number of AP
* Number of dice rolled in close combat
* Close combat bonus OR penalty
* AP costs for moving forward/backward/sideways and turning (basically, if turning 90* is free or not - if it is, then an AP would only be substracted if two successive turns were performed)
Weapons.sh would be a more complex thing, given the number of different values we might need to have for different weapons as well as the various sepcial rules/abilities (jam/malfunction/overwatch/self-destruction etc).
How many different classes do you think there could be? Terminators, Power Marines, Harlequins, Orks?
I was thinking about making class files which we develop and release which you put in your chapter directory. The chapter will then use this class file. By doing this we prevent players from changing the values and making the game way too easy.
The class.sh file would consist of a couple of values like amount of AP, max amount of CP, action costs and maybe even weapon names, weapon damages. When it comes to weapons it is a bit tricky. The replacement for SB will be a one burst weapon, HF must be a range limited, exploding, ammo based weapon and the replacement for AC must have its features...so that is trickier.
the_Fifth_Horseman
04-23-2009, 10:26
How many is a good question.
There are either official or fan rules for playing about every Wh40k race in Space Hulk (official ones only for Space Marines in Terminator/Power armor, Harlequins, Eldar and Chaos Space Marines).
I realise players could use a freely moddable rule file to cheat, but there is no other way to gain the required degree of flexibility.
You might be familiar with how unit rules in Civilization 2 could be modified - that's more or less what I see could work for weapons.
Rather than having the number of dice, range etc hard-coded, have the game read them from an external table. I realise this would be a fairly extensive change.
Well, since we do not have a online score board or multiplayer support cheating is something only affecting yourself so maybe it is easier to let players change the values themselves.
the_Fifth_Horseman
04-23-2009, 19:50
Not to forget, we can always add some sort of indication to whether or not a particular replay used a modified weapons file.
Here is a PM I got from alex3337:
Niklas,
Here's something I've been thinking on how to implement a generic weapons system in the game that would make it easy to add / modify the in-game
arsenal.
Before I go on the suggested weapon system, there are of course a couple of major issues that I can't easily solve:
1. The armory screen has been over-designed to the existing weapons arsenal in the current version. Adding additional weapons seems painful. Adding a
looong list of weapons seems impossible.
It would still be possible to use the new weapons for the alien hybrids only (which is what actually happens in the Space Hulk game)
2. It does not seem feasible to have a new sprite for every new weapon one could potentially add. Worse, you need an in-game srpite and a HUD graphic
for every weapon.
As a parallel solution with the above, you can still have a separate sprite for each type of hybrid ...
In any case, the possibility of modding the weapons would still be there. For example, the new Conan mod would greatly benefit from this, or the Aliens mod, or others.
The system relies on using a standard one-size-fits-all definition for all weapons: (sorry if this doesn't format properly)
bolter cannon flamer grenade autocanon
* number of dices rolled 2 3 1 1 1
* to-hit modifier 0 +1 +4 +2 +2
* sustained fire Y/+3 Y/+2 N N Y/+4
* ammunition 0 10 6 10 0
* effect area 0 0 3x3 3x3 0
* effect duration 0 0 1 0 0
* range U/12 U/12 12 12 U
* shoot AP 1 1 2 1 1
* move & fire AP 1 1 0 1 0
* overwatch allowed? Y/j Y N N N
* weapon can malfunction? N Y N N N
* weapon can self-destruct? N N Y N N
This allows to easily create new weapons, or modify existing ones.
The current table does not describe the self-destruct or malfunction effect description (area, to-hit modifier, duration), or possible close-combat modifiers.
With some additions you can even have close-combat weapons in the same table:
* weapon slot gun/close/both/none (grenades)
* close combat dies
* close combat modifier (already there ...)
* allows parry?
You could even allow per-mission weapon tables (changing the hybrid weapons, marines with less-than-standard ammunition, ...)
The to-hit modifier is used instead of a list of "to-hit" targets for every possible enemy. Then you need a parallel list of "to-kill" numbers for every possible item in the game:
to-kill
* marine 6
* purestrain 6
* hybrid 4
* blip 6
* door 6
* patriarch 6,6,6
Note the patriarch needs three 6's to kill (not all in the same shot / turn). Use as a sample of harder to destroy targets. This also enables modding the game even further, creating new enemies, or changing the existing ones.
Bulkheads are still special, since only some weapons can destroy them.
Sorry for the long message ... I send this as a PM instead of opening a new thread to avoid "extra" noise. You're the code-master, you decide.
Yours,
-Alex.
the_Fifth_Horseman
10-25-2009, 21:34
Merging with the slightly older thread on same subject.
Maybe adding all this is a bit overkill but what would it take to get hardcoded Power Marines into the game? Basically same hardcoded as the Terminators we have today.
We need a new action cost array.
We need new weapons but how many new weapons are there?
"Bolter", "Flamer", "Rocket launcher", ... and what for close combat?
Would be nice if all weapons could be downgraded into a smaller weapon. I guess the only weapon causing a problem is our Vulcan Cannon since its features and animation is a bit different. Also I guess we would have to add the Rocket launcher as a new weapon too...but it is pretty similar to the flamer...or am I remembering totally wrong?
the_Fifth_Horseman
10-26-2009, 13:11
Maybe adding all this is a bit overkill but what would it take to get hardcoded Power Marines into the game? Basically same hardcoded as the Terminators we have today.
I'd think thrice before agreeing with that. :p
We need new weapons but how many new weapons are there? "Bolter", "Flamer", "Rocket launcher", ...
Don't remember exact article for SH, but in WH40k it's...
Bolter, Plasma Gun, Melta Gun, Flamer (light, probably will need slightly different rules), Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannon, Multi-Melta, Lascannon, Missile Launcher with two types of ammo.
Also if I remember right, the SH rules for Power Armored Marines included grenades as an additional ranged weapon.
and what for close combat?
All ranged weapons listed above (except grenades) are two-handed. Troops can only have that or two one-handed weapons instead. Characters (Sergeants etc) can have one one-handed weapon and either a second one-handed OR a two-handed one (having two one-handed weapons is supposed to give some kind of bonus IIRC).
Bolt Pistol and Plasma Pistol, all the close combat weapons we already have for Terminators, Combat Shield, and the generic Close Combat Weapon. I think that sums it up, but will have to check to make sure.
Also I guess we would have to add the Rocket launcher as a new weapon too...but it is pretty similar to the flamer...or am I remembering totally wrong?
Not quite similar. Even less if you're firing Krak rounds.
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