[Rules] Space Marine project (not Terminators) [Archive]

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Donald_W

10-13-2009, 09:41

Thread for rules and discussion on regular Space Marines.

Note, that "Space Marine" here refers to Space Marine wearing Power Armor, not the Terminator (Tactical Dreadnought Armor)

Please change the other thread to [Graphics] Space Marine project (not Terminators)

alex3337

10-13-2009, 10:37

From the Space Hulk Bible (1st Ed rules)

Marines in standard issue Marine Armor have 4 action points to spend on movement and shooting, but the cost of those actions varies slightly to reflect their greater maneuverability. A Space Marine can make a 90° turn for no cost in APs, just like a Genestealer. They also have the same restriction against doing this twice in a row to avoid paying the 1 AP cost of a 180° turn. Space Marines with heavy weapons are an exception to this rule; they must pay 1 AP for a 90° turn and 2 APs for a 180° turn. Note that the flamer used by Space Marines isn’t a heavy weapon, but a lighter version of the one used by Terminators.

Space Marines roll a single die in close combat, and they have a –2 close
assault modifier. Space Marine Sergeants get a –1 modifier. Apply any bonuses from close assault weapons after subtracting the Space Marine’s penalty.

There is a wide variety of light and heavy weapons available to Space Marines (not Terminators) that will grant close combat bonuses. It says nothing about cheaper/ more expensive move & fire.

I found no mention about Space marines not blocking LOS or LOF. That is only noted for the Imperial Guard:
Going on one knee
Standard Guardsmen are who are not carrying anything encumbering (like special or heavy weapons) can go on one knee, allowing their comrade behind to shoot normally. The model behind him can then have LOS and arc of fire over the shoulder of his buddy. A model that’s “knee down” may fire their weapon normally.

But then, the Imperial Guard are not in any kind of heavy armor:
Light Armor
The light armor of the Imperial Guard emphasizes mobility over protection. When Imperial Guards come under enemy fire, treat them as Hybrids on the weapons chart.

Banjo_oz

10-26-2009, 09:36

Don't want to spoil your wish but ... Marines (not Terminators) still block LOF. Only the Imperial Guard can go on one knee, and allow two guys to fire, but those don't wear any armor worth the name.

I remember that, actually (was just responding/agreeing with similar "non-SH based" support for such a rule/idea)... but since I've never actually used Imperial Guard in SH before, I checked out their rules online today (I don't own an official source for their rules, unlike the ones for SMs in the Campaigns book), and they got me thinking that this brings up a rather interesting point in relation to Space Marines (not Terminators) in 'Alien Assault':

Are SMs actually different enough to warrant implementing, rule-wise, in AA? Would it perhaps be better if the devs are going to add a "lighter" soldier type to make them more like Imperial Guardsmen than SMs?

When I think about wanting an alternative to Terminators (or their AA equivalent... "Assaulters"??), I straight away think lighter, faster and more agile... but more fragile! I think of Aliens-style "Colonial Marines"... which really, is more Imperial Guard than Space Marine.

What I'm saying is, given that now - for better or worse - this is Alien Assault, and not exactly Space Hulk (I'm sure already there are differences, and remember there are already three editions of SH with varying rulesets), perhaps implementing a generic "commando" type for AA should lean more stat-wise towards no LOF blocking, faster movement, weaker units?

If the devs also eventually allow editors/modders to change unit and weapon stats, these light "commandos" could be turned into a purer form of Space Marine, Imperial Guard, Scout, or whatever was desired... but until that is possible, an "in between" default might sit better in AA as it now stands, and provide a much more different tactical option than just "poor man's Terminators" (which IMO is how SMs were handled in the real SH).

Just thoughts! :D

Perturabo

10-29-2009, 22:21

Frankly, I think that Terminators in SH are so ridiculously weak that they should be regular Space Marines, not Terminators.
SMs are already superhuman and have powerful armour, so they show that Genestealers are a dreadful menace well enough.

Brother Nay

10-29-2009, 22:31

Sgt Azrael

10-31-2009, 09:58

unless your talking about the ultra marines here then its prey that fights with special bullets that kick arse

Perturabo

11-01-2009, 01:48

What people tend to forget is, that Genestealers are extremly tough and ferocious enemies. They arent Termagaunts.

They are hard to kill, slice through steel with ease and are insect-fast.
They are the most perfect killer-organism in the known universe.

Terminators arent weak, they are basically the only ones even standing a chance to face them.
Everyone else doesnt count as "enemy" to them.
To the Hivemind, other life-forms are "prey".

Astartes are "prey that fights".
Terminators are "Foes"
Well, not really. The problem is that Space Hulk wasn't created as a game where Terminators are "Foes" - in that case Tactical Dreadnought Armour would provide some serious protection against the Genestealer attacks (like in a Genestealer having to do several attacks to inflict a wound) and Terminators would have a much better chance to hit.

They are intended to be the "prey that fights" like the ordinary human infantry in Aliens, which kills the whole point of employing super-heavy infantry.

Ordinary SMs (maybe with Storm Bolters, though with the low hit rate seen in Space Hulk, ordinary Bolters would be more probable) would make a lot more sense. Human sized critter that can easily tear apart a power-armoured superhuman is already ridiculously powerful. Making Space Marines in Tactical Dreadnought Armour as squishy as they are in Space Hulk, ventures way too far in the territory of absurd for my taste.

Brother Nay

11-03-2009, 16:17

Be that as it may, but this is the lore.

Through the ages, in every edition the Genestealer was the most powerful close combatant (except for Monstrous creatures), from Rogue Trader to 4th.

Read up here: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Genestealer

If i may quote:
Their two lower limbs are legs; another pair of limbs are extremely sharp claws which are used for tearing apart foes in close combat - these claws are so sharp that they can even hack through extremely well armored enemies, such as Space Marine Terminators, with ease. The other set of limbs are arms as well, but their nature varies depending on the type of species used to create the Genestealers or the needs of the Hive Mind. Genestealers are known for their incredible agility and great skill in close combat

Genestealers arent like that Aliens in Aliens the Move, those would (in terms of lethality) acount for Hormagaunts most likely.